What? Women Know Wine?
They say (in more places than you can shake a glass at) that the majority of wine purchases are made by women, though often in reference to those bought in stores. However, I have to wonder if that number is different for restaurant selections because sometimes it doesn’t seem to be what’s expected…especially after my experience the other night.
BK and I were having dinner at Il Fornaio–a lovely time over glasses of Mumm Brut and calamari made by someone other than me. At that point I preceeded to order a Primitivo. Except when the server came back to the table, she presented it to BK, who knew better and sent her over to me. Sadly, this was not the first time for this to happen nor surely the last. Read these comments at Uncorked, or this article in Boston Business Journal for more examples. And I have other stories, too, from back in Mississippi. How even if I asked for the wine list, the server would often question my boyfriend (who didn’t know much about wine, bless his heart) for the order.
Why? I ask you. Is it a nod to older days when women were handed menus that didn’t have the prices listed, perhaps assuming they wouldn’t want to hurt their pretty little heads worrying about the cost of their entree or even what they should choose? The idea that the man is in charge on the date and will most likely be paying? Well, that mess don’t fly with this chick.
I work at a winery, write a wine blog and column, am known to many as the wine girl or the food-and-wine pairing queen…and still have trouble getting wine service. With women making their way into the world of wine–whether as the makers or the marketers, the shipping-laws fighters or the highly-regarded writers–why can’t we get respect at the table? With more female sommeliers strutting their stuff and composing the wine lists, why can’t the server simply present the bottle to the person who orders it?
I can only wonder what it’s like if the server doesn’t know who Jancis, Andrea Immer Robinson, Dorothy Gaiter, or Natalie MacLean is and offers the first taste to the man at the table when she orders? I’d love to be a fly on that wall….
Readers and drinkers, tell me what you think and give an answer in my first-ever poll. I’m especially curious as to what my fellow female bloggers (Dr.Debs, Elsbeth, Megan, Catie, Kelly & Annie and so forth) have to say about this issue.
Farley Walker
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:52 am
WELL. It is truly the most aggravating thing in the world when you ask for the wine list and the waiter delivers it to the man at the table and/or you order the wine and they present it to the man to taste. What’s up with that? Are these people completely unable to pick up on basic signals? If so, they are terrible waiters!
Yes, we ladies are out there, and writing, and drinking. Even if sometimes our readers think we are men! But every time I see the WS editorial page, with Shanken and his friend in dark suits with red power ties I realize that there are huge problems with the image of wine in this country–not only for women, but for people of color. Wine has basically a white, male face in the US because (I think) they’re the ones who are overwhelmingly buying the high end, high profile, boutique wines and buying wine publications that drive this segment of the market. This is just my instinct talking–maybe I’m wrong, so if someone has sales numbers that would be interesting. Women buy most wine, yes, but what kind of wine?
Which is why alternative media like blogs are so important. My new favorite site is Divas Uncorked (http://www.divasuncorked.com/)–a wine network started by women of color to increase everyone’s knowledge of wine.
We may have come a long way, baby, but I think we still have a LONG way to go.
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:10 am
Dr. Debs, better words may not have been spoken in a long time. I guess we’ll keep truckin’ along, changing minds as we can!
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm
Well, I won’t answer your poll, cause I think our relationship might not be the norm….I always order the wine. Always. Even when out with my folks or when out with other groups.
However, 9 times out of 10, even though I order the wine, the server brings it immediately to Matt or another male in the group. One time they brought it to my friend’s husband and he just laughed at the server and pushed the glass at me.
It’s gotten to the point where I have actually become rude about it and when I see the server heading over to Matt, after I held the wine list, gave the order, and even perhaps asked a question or two about the wine list, and I presumptively tell them as they are standing behind him to pour that I will be tasting it.
I find it very irritating. Perhaps they assume that he clearly must be paying for the wine and therefore should be the one to taste it? That’s a very antiquated view to take. Especially in our situation where I am the one that brought him to wine in the first place!
I also enjoy when the server argues with me over the quality of the wine. I had to send my glass back tonight as it was awful…no flavor, clearly it came from a long open and not well stored bottle. The server didn’t think I was right and I should just take the glass he had given me!!
And so it goes.
June 3rd, 2007 at 5:23 pm
I like Divas Uncorked!
It’s not just a matter of who chooses wine at dinner and who waiters see as choosing wine - it’s also a matter of preferment in the wine industry. There are so many women in the industry and the amount of recognition is not related to their skills or their numbers.
Things need to change at the industry end, not just the restaurant dining end. (And yes, Farley, you inspired me to do a really grumpy blogpost on women’s history
).
June 3rd, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Sonadora–that’s exactly why you should fill out the survey. Who cares if you’re representative–you’re you and you do the ordering. Maybe we don’t know what’s representative anymore. And Gillian, glad you liked Divas Uncorked. I love your site, too.
June 3rd, 2007 at 7:05 pm
Wow, what a great bunch of comments, gotta love it. Although, why is it that none of the guys are weighing in on this one? Could be touchy for a guy here, but let’s stir the pot a little… hehehe Is there anybody who thinks that waiting tables in a fancy place is really all that easy? In Farley’s example, it was a non-caucasian waitress, and she wasn’t particularly young, so you can be sure she’s seen her fair share of injustice. Perhaps she was trained to present the wine to men first, and maybe even dislikes it but really needs the job. After a long day on your feet dealing with fussy diners (many of which probably don’t know the first thing about wine) it can be easy to slip into an old habit or just simply forget yourself. It doesn’t mean that they are necessarily stuck in the 19th century. I certainly agree with these responses, especially the idea that many cultural tendencies and perspectives regarding women have become outdated and need to change, whether having to do with wine or not. It’s important to keep after such change, but even more important to do it repectfully, as it is usually received better and remembered more positively. For my part, I’m happy to let the ladies order the wine (even if I do happen to be paying for it…) because the above comments ring true - women do know wine!
June 4th, 2007 at 4:43 am
I completely agree. I’m the wine girl in our family - hubby is the beer guy. I almost always order and hubby almost always is presented with the bottle. Drives me insane.
June 4th, 2007 at 9:07 am
Interesting that the tradition still clings to life even in california. One might be more understanding in land of cotten, where old times are not soon forgotten. that said, it is a training issue. tradition and habit in restaurants are hard broken because they are handed down from server to server. the old guard were trained that way and they are are hard to change, and the new kids are so uptight about the wine presentation they fall on old or bad habits learned from the old dog that trained them. like byron, i think the problem comes from as much as anything a busy and inattentive server. bottle of wine…table 47….present to the man because you weren’t really paying attention and that seems like the right thing to do.
it happens to me as a male at tables with more than one couple. i order a bottle or two for the table and the server shows up and presents it to someone else. it is irritating, but depending on the crowd and the bottle, i will ususally let the error go, gracefully. If on the otherhand i am presented with a bottle i did not order, i politely direct the server or somellier to the correct party.
most reputable restuarants want to make there coustomers happy and like to know when they are getting something wrong just as much, or more as when you let them know everthing was perfect. let the managment know so they can bring it up in the next staff meeting or line up.
Farley, this subject might make a good article for some restuarant trade publications.
June 4th, 2007 at 9:38 am
If I order wine and it’s not a special occasion, the waiter better castrate me right there.
June 4th, 2007 at 9:53 am
I defualt to Ryan, since he gets more enjoyment out of it then I do, plus, he’s the wine maker, I’m proud of his choice and it is never a bad choice. However, my friends and I go out to eat and they hand me the wine list when Ryan is not there, and that is always a great feeling.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:22 am
I would say that this transcends wine. We never order wine (sorry Farley!) but anytime there is a decision to be made, the person asking the question looks to my husband. For example, we went to the post office to mail a package. I was standing with my wallet open, holding my debit card, while my husband was looking at a pamphlet about Star Wars stamps. The clerk asked “How would you like this sent?” to my husband.
Stuff like this happens all the time.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:24 am
I don’t mind if the waiter hands the wine list to my bf or another male at the beginner, simply because they have to give it to SOMEONE…but because I usually order the wine and ask the questions, it bugs me when they bring it to him afterwards! Oh well, less tip for them!
June 4th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Ladies, I empathize. And I’ve even counseled an inattentive waiter who proffered the bottle to me when it was the lady who ordered it.
Ross mentions training and waiter attention, and while training is important where wine is concerned, it is attention to detail that marks a good waiter - a trait that apparently is not terribly common, even in the pricier establishments.
Endeavor to persevere, girls! Your time is coming.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:41 am
My girlfriend knows ALOT more about wine than me so would be the obvious choice to choose and order the wine. As it is, this never happens as we usually eat in places where a glass of coke or a beer is more appropriate lol.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:57 am
This is a great discussion, y’all.
To those ladies who almost always order the wine–Megan, Deb, Allison, Kelly, — I think it’s important to insist that we should be the taster if we order the wine, politely, of course. Unless the waiter rudely acts as if you don’t know what you’re talking about (Megan, i hope you asked for a manager)
Sara, i had a feeling that might be the case. Plus, Ryan is so bossy.
To the thoughtful men out there–Bryon, Ross, Russ, DaveP, etc– thank you! And my gripe has never been with you. It’s not your fault the waiter assumes you should know more than I do.
Winnie and Gillian–this issue most definitely goes into other areas. Sadly. I recommend everyone read Gillian’s post from yesterday as well.
Paul, I don’t know what to say to you. But that’s usually the case….
June 4th, 2007 at 11:14 am
Then I did my job.
It’s weird though, where I grew up I guess we weren’t as cultured, but men don’t drink wine. It’s almost all beer.
June 4th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
I’m no wine expert, but I do play one on the internet. Hee. I am a woman and I run a wine review blog.
I typically take the reigns when ordering wine in a restaurant, and the waiters have always responded to that. Good thing too, I’d hate to be treated like I’m at a car lot when ordering wine!
Sidenote: I’ve read that marketers have been designing wine labels to appeal to women since they make up a large portion of the buyers. I wonder if that means we’ll get more pink wine labels. That’ll go with my pink tool set and pink bbq tongs.
Do you think that screwcaps were invented for wimpy women who don’t know how to properly wield a corkscrew? (Unfortunately, only kinda sarcastic…)
Great topic, Farley!
June 4th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
My husband is the wine guru, so he orders the wine, but if a waiter didn’t also bring me a wine menu, I’d be pissed.
June 4th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Pissed is usually what I am after sharing a bottle with someone
June 7th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Nikki, we have a pink label!
A couple visiting a small Carmel bistro sat at a table on the curbside patio. The husband excused himself to pay a visit to the little boy’s room. In the meantime, his wife looked over the wine list and ordered two glasses of red wine. As the waiter brought the wines to the table, an elderly lady walked past and asked “why two glasses? Been a tough day?”
The woman replied, “I got this one for my husband.”
Without missing a beat, the old woman said: “good trade…”
June 8th, 2007 at 7:02 am
Nikki, I bet I can wield a corkscrew faster than anyone. LOTS of practice…
Elsbeth, great anecdote and a way to lighten our grumpy moods.